Transcript Episode 1

there was one question that I really wanted to ask you boys

coming from such a big company

and you’re sort of the whole makeup of your business has changed

what in the last three or four years

yeah five

I’d say five years it’s been pretty quick growth

I’d say we’re like very open to the fact that when we came into it

we didn’t know what we’re doing

which probably a little bit different sort of mindset

most people take into it

so when we start we have started that about five years ago

it was just us two but the

we came into it with the mentality of we’re not sure what we’re doing

like got business coaching very early on

we’re very ready to if someone had a better way to do it change

and that probably really helped us roll quickly

do you think being more pliable and sort of you know

understanding that what you know

put your ego aside open minded by design

yeah ego is kind of like it just had to be put aside

like for the betterment of the company

it’s the decisions you make and no longer like you and I

it’s like how it this baby that we’ve built is gonna succeed yeah

so I suppose the other thing was too

we both worked with older guys for like long periods before habitat

where we really saw

I guess how meeting that getting in your own way can be

like guys that a lot of the older generation

I would say were very well

the guys that are 50 or 60 now that have worked for themselves

since I was sixteen I never had to play by someone else’s rules

and that that mindset of like

this is how I do it that’s the only way to do it

like is very limiting to what you can achieve

I would say yeah hundred percent

that’s right

do you think a lot of that sort of mindset is definitely going away

nowadays like how do you think it shifted in the past sort of

cause you both been in the in the game for over 10 years now

so what do you think shifted in the you know

the time that you started to now

we’re really we’ve zoomed out a lot

and we’re looking at this with a lot bigger lens

than when we first started

when we first started

it was very much like Brad and I work together forever

know each other forever like really getting our like

whoever comes on to be like

integrate in a way that’s like the skills and the like

that was for first and foremost

it was about like the actual team doing the best work that they could

it was us like let’s build the absolute best like how can we do that

let’s buy the how do we buy the best tools

how do we have the best setup to like facilitate that

and now it’s kind of as the team’s growing

it’s where really like it has allowed us to like

look through a much like wider lens of where we sit within our market

and where we sit within our location

how all these other factors working with what we’re doing as well

like they’re very different

like the conversations we’re having now quite different

yeah

I was like quite different

I would say as an industry

like the people coming into the industry are different now

than what it was when I was

came through almost 20 years ago now

like it was very much the kid that trouble struggled at school

the kid that didn’t like maths

or was having trouble sitting in the classroom

would go and get a trade because mum and dad said

you have to get a job if you wanna leave school

that’s what you do and I guess like the guys coming through now

like we see it in the 18 19 year old kids that come through

like most of them don’t drink

no one smokes on site now almost at all

the like kind of crazy going

buying your lunch almost is like something people don’t do now

all the kids have got there with the same thing every day

like they’re all super aware of their mental health and stuff

which is stuff that’s probably was not a thing when I was coming

it’s unheard of like

you know yeah

so it’s always used to be celebrated to not look after yourself

yeah like back in

absolutely when you first came in

I think it’s coming in these days too

like know they have options

like when we were coming up

it was like you were lucky to get an apprenticeship

and it was like held on to it because it was like

ah who knows what the next thing is

like now there’s everyone’s got so much information

like they know they’ve got options

they can look for the right employer that fits them

I guess as well yeah

I suppose that will really show up in the industry

I’d say where it’s less of that one man band

well I think the whole world’s going away from that yeah

one man show I think carpentry and building will follow as well

like businesses will get bigger

people will get more documented

I guess it’ll all just roll on to where it’s bigger

and bigger businesses doing it

I’d say we talk about the young fellas and

you know sort of what it’s like nowadays

where did it begin for the both of you

and how did you actually get interested in carpentry

for myself um

we had pretty different kind of leadings to carpentry

I had an interest in design

I went through school

and I basically was super passionate about architecture

I didn’t have the marks to do it unfortunately

like I ended up landing a construction management degree

which I kind of fell into as a bit of a second preference

I had a lot of crossover with architecture

so I kind of settled for that as a bit of a

as a Plan B and a pathway kind of as a pathway

and that kind of morphed into

you know getting a job with a T1 builder competitive

super competitive out of uni

yep which ultimately I hated

I kind of yeah

it was this real kick in the teeth

where I put all this time and effort in

and I’ve kind of realised

I really didn’t like that part of the industry

I wasn’t like I didn’t like the

the people that I was work like I

I definitely forged like great friendships

which I’ve still got from that part of my life

but I didn’t see myself pursuing that style of work for me

my happy place was every summer while I was studying

was I’d come back and I’d frame with

a mate of mine and that was like my super happy place to come back

and it’s just what started my drive for carpentry pretty much yeah

right

and there’s a bit of a crossover in from Brad and I with the guys

we learnt off

the guy that I’d come back and work with was also taught by

he was my he was my entry into the industry

yeah right

so I was pretty much floating like

is that how do you boys know each other as well

is that our moms are best mates

oh yeah

that’s awesome

yeah that’s awesome

yeah that’s awesome

yeah I was kind of floating after school and I had a knee reco

so I was kind of out of action for a while

coming straight out of high school

new Joel as well who Tim was working with over summers

and sort of started lining up to maybe go and work with him

yep and then while that was sort of happening

his boss Andrew Sturts had an apprentice who’d broken his arm

so I went and helped him for six weeks and then he wanted me to stay

yeah and I ended up working with Andy for almost six years

just being Andy

which was a great upbringing for me

and I think people word is

probably

don’t put enough emphasis on going and learning those processes

at that framing stage like

we’ve found that everyone that we’ve bought through

that have ended up becoming what I would call elite

have started in that world

yeah and like it’s a tough world

that production framing it’s go go go

but it teaches you work ethic

teaches you how to process

how to make processes around what you’re doing

it helps you make decisions quickly and yeah

move quickly it’s very repeatable yeah

cause you gotta get it up

you gotta get the frame up yeah

please yeah

but I would say from our experiences we found well

Andy was an older guy

maybe 50 when I started with him and he’d been framing for 20+ years

just framing for 20+ years then

and like he had very specific ways of doing everything

and that taught me like this amazing ability to be able to like

build anything

and I think especially that framing stage as a start point is

it’s probably the only part of that industry

that’s very much dictated

you have to do it one way yeah

like come in and be it gets inspected afterwards like super rigorous around the codes of how it has to be done yeah

what has to be done

whereas every other part of our industry more or less

you can make it up as long as it looks right at the end yeah

at the day if that makes sense

like you can hang a door however you want

as long as it the door works

no one’s ever gonna question it yeah

whereas that stuff

learning how to do something where it has to be done a certain way

is super good I reckon yeah

right what about for young traders

cause you guys employ quite a few like how big is the team now

I think we’re at 19 at the moment

guys and girls guys and girls

that’s right so who’s the youngest on the team Jordan would be the youngest on the team who should be eighteen

so pretty fresh

I think at this point in it we’ve had a school based premises before

yep

and we’ve had guys come in before they’re old enough to get a licenses

I think at this point for us that’s probably a real bottleneck for us

yeah but getting that license is a crucial it’s crucial for us now

I think if you maybe if you’re working in one man show

and you live around the corner

maybe it still works but in this day and age and for the size and

how we’re running now

like they have to be self sufficient to be able to work

that makes sense that’s a good step in them

like getting your license and setting up

whatever vehicle you’re gonna drive to work

is a big step in your life

you kind of saying

I’m ready to do I’m ready to take on that like identity

I’m gonna be a carpenter I’m gonna be a tradesman

gonna take all my tools with me

or gonna take all my ownership over it yeah

that’s right that’s right

and then also putting it on someone else to pick you up every day

and you know yeah

it’s definitely still works for some people

I know that hundred percent

we help out with school based apprenticeships and you know

young guys and girls and stuff that go through that process

but yes it’s definitely tough to find the right employees that

that are happy to do that kind of

so you’re not not out of the norm

I reckon my first apprentice was a school based apprentice yeah

that’s how it all started are you still with us

yeah still with us

that’s right

what about any advice you might have for some young chippies

or young tradies that sort of getting into it

what’s something that you you’d say to them I wrote down some stuff around advice for my younger self yeah yeah

yeah from younger self got it

which is probably the same question more or less

was that how I would look at it if I knew what I knew

now coming into it

I think we talked about it last night

we’re sort of saying a lot of guys are in a rush

and like the way the world is now

everyone’s everything bang bang bang

like quick dopamine like don’t be in a rush

like I suppose if you can get like your time done

people talk about paying your dues like that

getting your time done when you’re young

and really finding someone who’s established

whether they’re old or young doesn’t really matter

but finding someone who’s established who you can work with

who’s actually gonna teach you what you need to know

in any of the trades will make

you more money quicker than going and finding the highest paying job

where you’re doing crap yeah

like the money kind of I suppose like yeah

looking at it as the money will look after itself

yeah and we run a business like that as well where it’s very

very rare we sit down and talk about dollar figure

but we talk about percentages of utilization

percentages of turnover profit percentages at different um

levels throughout the business and day to day

and then the money kind of looks after itself

like if you can get those metrics right

the money looks after itself and I think that’s the same

mindset I would bring it come in to doing an apprenticeship at 18

now would be

it doesn’t really matter what the dollar figure is for that job

that four years is about getting as much

getting as good at building that’s possible yeah

is what you actually want out of that

and that will but the difference of someone coming out of

side on town where all where all they’ve ever done is a fire doors

and then walking out of that job at 22

and going and asking someone for 50 bucks an hour as a subbie

is a very different prospect to someone who

I suppose it’s come through our program at this point

and can build your house yeah

and then them walking out I can read a plan

I can build a house of plan

them walking out and asking for who knows

what might be very appropriate

OK and having the ability from that to manage a team manage people

understand how people work within that whole system

we kinda talk about it a lot of

you’ve got to be able to give value before you can get value

and not necessarily

nearly chasing that money as a quick fix to where you’re going

in the scheme of things it’s really

needs to be like

a long term outlook for who’s gonna give you the best experience to

to get you to where you wanna go

cause you can’t always take the quick fix

the other the other piece that we always say to people

when we interview them now too

is like if you come and try it and you don’t like it

like you gotta find a love for it

cause it on like

the pictures you see on Instagram and stuff

of someone laying a deck in 25 degrees

and then with two of their mates and it looks good and it looks fun

that’s a like that doesn’t happen that often

it’s normally raining or it’s normally windy or it’s normally

you have to have something to keep you busy

45 degrees yeah

like those five great days of you where you sit on a deck look

you gotta have a look at those yeah

like you pay for them so like anyone coming in

like

I would say like everyone starts on that three month probation anyway

when you sign up for your friendship

I’m pretty sure now yeah

yeah that’s right

-and like if you get six weeks in and you go

I don’t think this is for me like yeah

you wanna make sure you love it’cause it’s a hard

it’s a great way to make a living and we all love it yeah

but if it’s not your thing

it’s a hard way to make a dollar yeah

definitely yeah

and I think they don’t even release the tool out

and stuff until three to six months in there

as well so that you gotta pay your dues

yeah hundred percent absolutely yeah

yeah um

I think like for a younger version of myself

probably like

backing myself in and having the confidence to take on my challenges

without necessarily knowing all of the answers

that was kind of against the way I thought when I first started

I just wanted to know what the answers were before I’d really

kind of have the confidence to tackle something

but yeah I guess through that like journey of qualified

through the business owners

like really taught that you have to

back yourself with the ability to know that

you’ll figure out a way to make it happen

hundred percent that’s really good

it’s good advice have you ever had

well obviously you’ve done smaller jobs

you’ve gone

through to these big tenders and stuff that you guys are doing now

and it’s completely changed in the past five years

but have you ever had a job that’s memorable

that went completely sideways

and how did you

what was a positive that came from it or how did you recover

we started talking about this

this morning when we’re driving up actually going

don’t know if necessarily

we’ve ever had a job as a whole that’s gone really badly

yeah

I would say that we’ve never had a job that’s gone 100% right either

but so when we’re talking about

we’re saying like every single job has its challenges that we build

whether it’s a dog house for mum and dad

or it’s

one of these beautiful homes that we’re now building on Canberra

I think the biggest thing as far as a carpentry aspect comes from

is the ability to apply your knowledge across different tasks

so I would say your apprenticeship is about seeing as much as you can

and then people’s ability to apply something

that they’ve seen before to a new task is where

people become really good carpenters

that’s where the gold is cause like every

every job we do is inherently

different and more complex in different ways

and it’s not we’ve never like done that job in that way before

it’s about like applying all the

like

you might be installing a window in a way where you’ve got to use

the skills you’ve developed with different cladding types

and flashing types and stuff

to pull it off basically

you need to like pull all of your knowledge from the different

things that you’ve learnt

pretty much I love that

I love that yeah

and that yeah

cause everything you say will be new more or less yeah

like the window that we’re putting in here with you

and your office

is very different than the window that’s in our office

and it’s like the ability to look at it and go

I’ve seen a window before alright

this is what we did to get it in okay

that will work to make this what it needs to be

and being able to apply that is kind of the magic that happens

after you finish your apprenticeship

I reckon and it’s

that probably comes in the first

couple of years after your apprenticeship

because once you finish an apprenticeship here

and then you come and work for us

we look at you as qualified carpenter

and we throw you in the deep end and go

go put the window in because you’re charging me as qualified carpenter

and then all of a sudden you gotta go

wait a minute there’s no one to tell me how to do that

and you have to work it out for yourself

it’s probably where you gotta know why that’s

where the magic happens of realising that oh wait a minute

I can build a house which is kind of cool

yeah it’s that kind of make or break really without like

all of the knowledge you’ve got really drops into place

and things start making sense as to why everything works together

like why is there a weep hole at the bottom of the window

oh why don’t we cover that up

or why like

understanding what the purpose of all these different things before

in your experience or you know in your own opinion

what what do you think makes like a good builder great or you know

a great builder good you know

what’s what’s the difference between someone who’s a great builder

and someone who’s just a good builder

yeah we we write down a few like

key I guess attributes that our a grade builders have

it’s probably a very different thing for us to talk about this now

than it would have been 10 years ago

as a couple yeah

like as where we were what’s let’s start there now yeah

what would be 10 years ago

what’s different back then to what you how you see a good builder now

like a great well the actual

what makes the great builder probably isn’t any different

it’s what I was measuring it off

I would say

so like as a carpenter coming in as an employee or a subbie

say the guy that was there with you on site

the guy that would teach you the stuff you didn’t know

and help you through the stuff you didn’t know

as well as give you the space to actually do it yourself was

super important but that was because I was out there every day

yeah so that like that’s where the

if I were a good builder or a bad builder came from

I think something that stays consistent across now and then is that

that builder is

doing the absolute best to build the best product they can

for what they’re doing this has stayed true right through for me

yeah hundred percent

and they like

surround themselves with a team of people who get them there basically

they’ve got that like underlying passion to really build the best home

that’s their integrity that’s their integrity piece is big

one other big one is that they respect your time

and they don’t mess with your schedule

like things happen and things push out

but ultimately that like respect for time which we give back as well

it has to be like a super integral part of like

the relationship to work for us

I think someone that can communicate well yeah

that’s build a client build their trades

I think that communication is yeah

almost the top of the list for us now especially

but I think that definitely comes in

like when you’re coming in as a young guy as well

like someone that can communicate what they’re expecting

what the ground rules are

I guess so that you can then perform within that

yeah is

super important yeah

like all the formal communication

informal communication

like around invoicing variations and meetings and correspondence

how you deal with them surrounding themselves with good office staff

so that your interactions with them through invoicing variations is

like pretty seamless

it’s not like someone calling up saying

how are we doing this again

like when you’ve had this

like generally we have this like

subcontractor agreement you know

drawing out terms and fleshing out who’s doing what when

and like it needs to be yeah

established and kind of like gone through in a way expected

beneficial for both yeah

I guess I just made a note at the bottom about like

the BBA spotlights at the moment

TikTok Inspector and stuff that everyone’s saying obviously

like as a bit of a comment on the overall industry

I guess like

there really is a spotlight

at the moment on the people that are doing the wrong thing

hmm which I think is really important

like there are guys out there doing the wrong thing

yeah not looking after people the right way

or building people’s houses the right way

to try and make an extra dollar but I would say like on the whole

as the industry the guys that have been around

they are doing the right thing

but the majority of guys are out there

trying to build the best house they possibly can for everyone

at every level so like yeah

it looks pretty bleak at the moment

cause that’s what’s getting the headlines

I guess yeah

but the majority of guys out there are trying to do the right thing

I think that’s where sort of the heart of CA sort of came from

and you know

through Jake be having his own carpentry business and then you know

sort of his other businesses he’s working on now

but it’s just that the harder carpenters like we

we generally good people you know

and doing the right thing and they’re just the hard workers that

you know

want to have a laugh and and want to be able to get the job done

but yeah at the core

it’s just good people that do good things and that’s yeah

you know

and there is some bad eggs and that’s you get that with any industry

but yeah I know being in it likel’ve been with CIA for 7

8 years now I’ve spoken to a multitude of different chippies

and I’d say that majority of the blokes that I’ve come across

and people like yourself as well

you know good lads that you know

are just out there having a cry yeah

for sure and I think

come back to integrity like with the builders especially

like you can kind of see it now like everyone’s got Google reviews

everyone’s got Instagram that’s showing you what they’re going about

like if you’re gonna go and get a builder at the moment

like do your research if there’s some

if there’s

a guy’s been building houses in your local area for 20 years

probably gonna do the right thing by her

because he’s still there after 20 years yeah

like you know what I mean

so like I think anyone that’s sort of

crying poor

now on the fact that the builder’s not doing the right thing by him

like probably need to put a bit more effort in at the start bit of it

yeah hundred percent do you guys do a little bit of Google reviews

do you have any sort of like that sort of the business testimonials

or our our business currently is business to business

yep and we’ve found that the portfolio of Instagram which

we put a bit of effort into and even LinkedIn now

which feels funny to say but yeah

that as well yeah

it’s a weird world that one

we’ve kind of found that word of mouth

we’re so tightly geolocated as well

that everyone we work for knows each other yeah

SO

I think we’ve been able to kind of go a little bit old school with it

where that portfolio of Instagram and word of mouth

more or less has kept us busy

we’re now that’s probably something we need to like look into

but it’s carried us through this far

isn’t it yeah we’re sort of on

we’re on the path now of starting to ask for that sort of stuff

and that

maybe it’s the kind of builders we’re working for it in the

in that world of you know

mid 50s to mid 60s

where it’s like the handshake is the thing they wanna see

they wanna like feel that like relationship

it’s not just on a you know

shiny gold star on a Google review yeah

that’s true

that’s true what about

you guys got such a big team

you know

what about team culture and sort of what do you think builds that

you know a team that sticks together and like performs really well

yeah this is a massive part about where we started

we actually started with culture super early yeah

in the piece like half accidentally

half accidentally yeah

we started doing

working on core values and like that culture stuff super early on

but like we always talk about hiring on attitude

we can teach you skills

that attitude basically really sets up whoever it is

it’s working for us to play by the

the right set of values I guess within what we’re doing and the

the fact that we put so much effort into that culture

and the right people at the very start has built that core team

where it’s create

they create the environment now that builds the culture really

like people that come in

almost vote themselves in or out themselves now yeah

like yeah

they can handle it or you can’t

we kind of push it as that high performance right from the start

we talked about it as a footy club

like that high performance footy club where it’s like

everyone’s coming through together

things so like

it’s kind of at a point for us now where our core team

or our team as a whole now really

push that like if someone comes in and they’re not up to it

like they know before we do really hundred percent yeah

and we need them to be our eyes and ears to be able to have that

feedback because we’re not working

it’s not day 1

where Brad and I are working with The Apprentice anymore

we can’t get that feedback

so having that like reliance on our management team to work

relay that is massive for us now

cause otherwise you can’t get a proper like grasp on scaling

but I think yeah and I think that culture too stems from like

we’re building really nice houses now yeah

and like it has to be high performance

it has to be a high pressure situation

because it is the top of the

top of what’s being built that really drives the right people

and to help those people drive

like we have a real responsibility to make sure that

they’ve got good job progression within us

so they don’t have to go look other places

like a fair few guys go right through their time with us now as well

like full four year apprenticeships

and has like looking to stay on afterwards as well

like at the moment it’s sort of going on

so that does that come from

attitude as well so like

if you’ve got someone who’s gone through their time

and they’re really you know

they want to take on some more responsibility and stuff

do you look for that in your

in your guys and girls to to level them up

they won’t make it four years

if they haven’t got the right attitude at anywhere

not just in habitat anywhere in this industry

like if you’re not if you’re not ready to go you

you won’t make it it’s tough

it chews people up and spits them out

what about the leveling up though

you said this that leveling up is I suppose the guys from inside

like our guys that have gone right through now

their attitudes have to stay where they are

but the attitude around

whether they know enough or not to go to the next level is on us I would say yeah

like

it’s really up to us to design that like pathway where they can say

I’m ready to be like qualified and confident um

is more on us than them

so I’d say the attitude piece is still the most important piece

yeah right through really you can be the best

well that really hurts your culture

like if you’ve got a team of a graders who are

going out and killing it every day

doing the right things

and you put one guy in there that’s not on that same path

and whether that’s just

he’s not on that same path doing carpentry or he’s just a sad sack

who knows that

like if you that drags everyone down too really quickly yeah

like the rotten egg rots the whole

the rotten apple rots the whole bunch really quick

hundred percent so been

been really up on that is important

I think we

we take it pretty seriously that like

I guess generally we’re on site the most out of anyone in the build

so we’re we’re setting the tone

we’re setting the culture from the start for the whole site really

and it’s like

when you’re there and you’ve got a big team of people there

they have a really big impact on how everyone else like

goes about the day goes about the day

like how serious they take themselves how like how prompt they are

how much they respect what you’re doing

so it’s a real yeah we take that like super seriously that we’re like

I guess setting the tone yeah

I think that driving driving those sides as well as carpenters

cause you are the proxy builder as a carpenter

yeah no matter if you’re the fourth year apprentice or you’re the

50 year old builder like you

you are the point of call for all the trades as well always

yeah on everything

but I think that’s been really prevalent since we’ve

had a female apprentice for the first time in the last

or this year sort of thing

it’s been really prevalent that we were

I was a little bit apprehensive about it

not from a point of view that I didn’t think

a female could do what we’re doing

I was a little bit apprehensive of it

because I feel very confident

I can control what happens within habitat

but on a building site where there’s 60 guys every day

that is out of control out of my control I guess

and the atonement

the guys have set on the sites that we’re on with girls now as well

has been so good that there hasn’t been any issues

which has been great like

you’ve got 60 year old bricklayers on those sites that have

maybe never talked to a girl other than their wife for the last

all of a sudden can build a house with a young girl

a young 18 year old girl like the

yeah like you have

especially as carpenters like

you have an incredible

opportunity to set the standard on any building site

you know I think

but the other side of it as well is

I think that you boys sort of set the tone very early

cause I remember before you even hired Jordy

you came to us and you were like

look what

what can I what can I do for it

what what do I need to learn

or is there any any sort of

you know educational pieces that you guys can provide

to just make it a smooth transition for her and

you know just make it comfortable for her

we had no apprehension in giving Jordy a job

yeah the apprehension for me anyway

was around how to

give her the same opportunity that an 18 year old bloke coming in

was gonna have yeah

so that she wasn’t hindered because old mate down the road has

hasn’t seen a girl for 20 years

yeah do you know what I mean

like

that was the biggest driver for me around it was not necessarily well

we were very adamant that she wasn’t getting a leg up

like you either make it or you don’t on your own merit

and that came from her too

yeah but

that ability to give

a female the same opportunity as an 18 year old bloke

was super important to me

and we went around and asked a few different people

had conversations with a couple of different

lady tradies yep

the biggest things as an employer that all of them came to us with was

towards situations

which I was already onto and getting uniforms that fit them properly

yeah it’s a massive thing so they don’t wanna stand out

they wanna fit in they just wanna the same

and like if that’s a

if that’s the hardest bit of your day

to get someone on a building site

then if you can’t do that you probably shouldn’t be employing anyone

yeah to be honest yeah

that’s good that’s good

what what keeps both of you motivated after all these years

been in here that long you know

over 20 years I wasn’t yeah

I think the biggest one of the biggest motivators for me

is being able or we talk about it for both of us

is being able to give them like

a platform where they can succeed as well

like we wanna create

something where we can bring everyone along for the ride

and everyone can win and it’s a real motivation for us to get better

and be better for that yeah

that’s probably developed

but I would say like we didn’t

me and Tim start a habitat as me and Tim

and we went and dug holes for a builder that we’re still working for

now

we’re pretty much they were building a massive house on the Peninsula

other carpenter crews and they’re doing really nice work

and we went down the back and dug stump holes for a boathouse

at the back and we worked 20 hours a week more than anybody else

and it was raining we put raincoats on and kept digging

and that was where it started really

and then that now

that mindset around building this as much for ourselves as we are

for the guys working for us

and their opportunities and where they can go next is

something that’s really grown out of I suppose

our personal developments as well as like yeah

personal developments I guess

definitely business coaching and personal finance courses

and like we just try to

take in lots of we’re just investing now

honestly I could say that like

you know in all the years that I’ve been dealing with

you know chippies and builders and you know people like yourself

I haven’t seen

two people that have been more sort of dedicated to just learning

and have being open to understanding new things

and it’s sort of the proof sorry is in the pudding yeah

really that you

your boys have sort of come so far and you’ve got this big team

and you finally sort of in that scope of what you wanna be doing

and still developing you know

still learning

still learning about new software and implementing new things

and trying to help out your team develop

we’re really funny

we’re really funny because we both talk about the goal being

getting back to going digging holes like getting this to a point

if we can get successful enough that we can put it back

back on yeah

that’s funny that’s a funny song

that means we made it that means it’s a funny song

look on the whole thing isn’t it

yeah

if we can afford to go and do that

yeah it’s like we’ve done it right

really funny I love that

I love that

any other motivating things

that’s

you gotta love your job yeah like it’s a great job if you love it

and we’ve seen

we’ve probably both seen people that’s come through that have

and haven’t

and like that passion for it is what carries you through the

like challenging times it’s not always easy

yeah you gotta love the heart of the job

just being chippy I think as far as like Carpenter is concerned

like it’s hard yakka

but it’s probably the most rewarding job I can think of

you know what’s hilarious

I always think back to

I think it

I don’t know if it was the first helping hand that we did together

but that one that we did in Epping

where we built that massive deck for the old lady

that had been a volunteer for 50 odd years

and we were you know

just typical habitat behaviour

it was like 7:00am we’re doing like the team meeting

and I think they were waiting for the camera crew

to rock up so we could sort of get a bit of

and you boys were demolishing

the fence was down within like five seconds

yeah boys stop stop

we had to stop it from working yeah

we get started or not have this nervous energy pent up in

you want to go some of that’s probably like learning about

understanding how it all works as well like yeah

you have to wait for the camera crew so that you can give back

like giving back in my mind is going to get the job done yeah

but I guess yeah

like if you actually step back and look at it as a wider world

like you have to be able to

show what’s happening so you can do the next one

and get the right sponsors on board and all that sort of stuff yeah

which yeah

I don’t know how long ago was that that I think it was that

I think it was fed last year okay

so probably not even that long ago

like my mindset was still like the charity

not the charity but the

doing the right thing

by what we were trying to do was get in and get it done yeah

and doing it to the best of our ability

whereas like

my mind’s opened up even to that wider picture of communicating it

yeah you have to be able to communicate the value which is a big thing we talk about now in our

business is like that communication of value

if it you can supply as much value if you want

if no one knows you’re doing it’s not worth anything yeah

it’s true you can be the most valuable thing in the world

how are you not communicating

it is no value yeah

it has no value

that’s it

what’s one myth about builders or tradies that that you’d love to bust

we kinda talk about this and we’re sort of like at a bit of a loss

I think it’s a tough question

there’s no there’s no like one myth where it’s like

ah we all love servo pies

you know busted yeah

but we talk about like the fact that at the moment in our current

in the world they’re in like

it’s super exciting

that there’s a large range of people that are getting into trades

they’re not just stereotypical blokes that didn’t fit into that like

box of school learning they just went

I’m just gonna go do a trade like we’ve got more women in the trade

we’ve got neurodiverse

people with autism spectrum disorders and ADHD and dyslexia

and all these things that are

can become people’s superpowers

that are people that thought that they were not fit for a trade

and like they’re all super

it’s awesome to see how it all can work together yeah

love that yeah

well I guess probably going back to our earlier conversation of

how different it is now than when I started

like the guys coming into trades now aren’t what it was

when I was coming in

like you came in and it was like you don’t look after yourself

you work 60 hours a week because that’s what everyone does

like you get sunburn every day

you’re on a roof with no scaffolding

all that sort of stuff whereas now like the kids coming through now

like most of them don’t drink

yeah and like to find a smoker on a building site now is almost rare

unless you’ve got older guys with it

but like yeah

what we’re almost 20 people now

and I think there’s two guys that still roll a cigarette

every now and again yeah

and it’s like yeah

it’s a very the types of people that are coming into the trades now

and the attitude of those people that are coming in is very different

yeah I would say you probably the myth now

like you’re not getting the tattooed bloke

coming in to fix your door anymore

you’re getting an 18 year old girl

or a 30 year old bloke that on the weekend

does triathlons yeah

like it’s not rough as guts anymore

yeah like the people in it

the professionalism of the industry as a whole is going up quickly

really quickly yeah

I love that what about

well I think the other thing that I wanted to ask you boys

because I sort of thought about it this morning

and I know it’s not if everything went away if

if you boys didn’t have habitat anymore

and you were just starting out as your day 1 yep

you know what

what advice would you give to someone who’s really just trying to

start out in their business

you know as business

as a business as like a subbie or

you know I would

if you had nothing to go by

like what what would you recommend

best thing we did was go and get business coaching from day one

yeah and every mentor or business coach we’ve talked to since

has pretty much told us how rare it is to have someone

day one yeah

but the most people that they see are people 10 years deep

that are sinking and go and help me yeah

and they develop things that they can’t

like these systems and like things that they can’t

I can’t do I guess we came in Day 1 and went

we’re reasonably good at building houses together

we’ve got no idea what’s going on here

yeah we’re very open about that yeah

we just both of us sat together

and I don’t know if that’s because it was both of US

and we could be honest with each other

or why we came to that

but we very much came to we don’t know how to run a business

so that going and getting business coaching

and the business coaching we had for the first two months was great

but it wasn’t the end game

but like if you’re gonna go and start a business

go and pay someone that knows how to run a business to help you start

yeah would be my case OK

don’t be too proud like don’t let your yeah

don’t be too proud and let your ego get in the way of saying

I don’t know like

because the biggest damage to business

that I’ve seen in the last five years is people’s egos yeah

like get out of your own way yeah

like you don’t you don’t know how to run finance effectively

you don’t know how to run your sales and marketing and you operations

like everything like all these different hats you have to wear

you don’t even know you’re wearing them

when you first starting a business

so like

actually getting some contacts and like learning before you start

you go that’s why I’m doing that or that’s why people you know

measure their these this particular number every week or every month

yeah like why is that so important like that context

I think the business coaching we’re in at the moment as well too

we’re in a group of other trades people yep

they’re trades based business coaching

and the guys that we’re associated with

through that are in the same kind of boat

same level as we’re trying to play in now

and that power of having other people around you

doing the same things and being of the same mindset is super powerful

I think the other piece I would say is don’t rush yeah

like I know a lot of kid

a lot of guys come out and like my in my minds

I always saw myself doing my own thing even from day one yeah

and I know a lot of guys come into it going

I’ll run my own business or dad was a builder

and I’m gonna do that or whatever it is

but like me and Tim didn’t start habitat until we were 30+ so like

and now everyone it’s never too late to start well

it’s never too late to start

but also people watch our how quickly we’ve been able to grow habitat

and some of that is we’ve done 15 years of work before we got here

like it’s not like

we’d already have done

a lot of the hard yards before habitat even started

so that we could go quickly

whereas like if you’re coming out at 22 or whatever

and you’re gonna try and start a business with your mate

doing fences or whatever you’re gonna do

like the progression will be a lot slower

so sometimes I reckon that holding off just that little bit longer

getting a bit more experience with

people who know what they’re doing and stuff

they say an overnight success is like 10 years of hard work

or something like that yeah

so it’hard work and yeah

you know time and energy and you’re right

I think the experience piece is massive because it’s really hard

like I talk to people all the time about you know

getting their builder’s license and trying to take that next step

and you know sometimes they’re not ready and you’ve got to be honest

I like I’m always honest with them I say look

you need some more time to learn these things

and I know you wanna get to here and you wanna be registered

and you wanna be doing these big jobs

but you know if you go to quick too early

you know you’re not gonna pass as one thing

and you’re also gonna sort of

fall flat on your face when that’s not what you’re looking for yeah

well I would say the other thing

be very ready to sacrifice if you want to run a business

like there’s a good chance for that first five years

you will be the poorest person in that company

like

if you’re gonna do it right and you’re gonna try and build something

it’s gonna last 20 years plus you

you have to be ready to give up almost everything

to get that thing off the ground like yeah

I know like

if you look

at other businesses and people go and buy them for a million bucks

you will spend a lot more than $1 million to get

a good carpentry business off the ground

at scale

like be ready to sacrifice time money

yeah you just have to really be like aware

like we’re pretty aware that we wanted to start a business together

and it wasn’t an off the cuff thing that we decided overnight

we’ve spent years

years working together and really like establishing that knowledge

I’d say like it’s

it’s definitely a good idea to go into business with someone

but I wouldn’t take that lightly as well

like if you were going to go into business with someone

understand what your strengths and weaknesses are and really be like

super

you need to establish your relationship before you go

and make it complicated with

money overheads and money and bank accounts and employee problems

and like all of these other things

don’t come yeah

it’s not gonna make most

most of the business that are older will say partnerships are no good

we’ve found like great comfort in what we do and great ability to

scale obviously and stuff together but we were very

very aware of who we were and how we work together

and that

before we even talked about what the company was gonna be called yeah

you didn’t just hop in no

not at all yeah

the I think the last thing I’d like to talk about is just

the partnership that we’ve

obviously in the relationship that CS had with habitat over the years

and I think you were originally our

our first member through habitat yeah

back in 2018

I’m not sure I signed up a long time ago cause I wanted a T-shirt

I’m pretty sure that’s where it started for me

I think that’s right what’s changed for

for you guys obviously this year you guys came on as a

as a champion of industry and that’s obviously the

the top enchilada of our members and you know

someone who wants to support their whole crew

and you know what

what was the value for

for you guys to sort of tap in a little bit more to us and

and yeah how do you see the relationship we definitely saw the power of community through the helping hand

like how much your other members willing to put in as well

like what with what we do

you end up being very isolated

sometimes you can end up being very isolated away from else

and being involved with Carpentery Australia

and seeing that there’s other guys out there doing

the same stuff as us

trying as hard as us is like a really powerful for US

super refreshing this is how the people are trying to push yeah

what they’re doing

as far as supporting a whole team

super important obviously

we’ve talked about it heaps

and us being able to come on as champions

and that getting your whole team involved is

massive for us and those guys

having that same support that we have through Carpentry Australia

it gives us a good sense of community as a habitat team

I guess like everyone knows it

got the confidence to call you guys up for support on anything

that they need so

and I guess probably jumping on now like in a full capacity too is

I guess we’re probably growing at relatively the same speeds

like I’ve seen it go from like a one man show

more or less to what it is now in these offices here

like yeah pretty

pretty spec but

I suppose habitat from the outside is the same thing

I started from a couple of blocks

digging holes through to where it is now

like I’d say our journeys are reasonably sort of symbiotic

so kind of made sense that’s right

I think it’s super important to have a body for carpenters as well

like we’ve been members of HIA for a long time now as well

which is the economic master builders

yeah same sort of thing

I think having that industry body that really is carpentry specific

is super powerful yeah

like sparkies and plumbers have always had their stuff and that but

carpenters have always just been on the side

yeah especially like as far as licensing and everything

yeah so I think having an industry body that actually overseas

that I think we’re just talking to Nate before we came in as well

about you supporting

people employing women and stuff

I think it’s really powerful

and it’s something that has definitely been missing from

carpentry as a whole awesome

up until now it’s a no

I love it

love it what about

where can people find you

I know you

you don’t Instagram is the easiest one

easiest way yeah perfect

alright well

what we’ll do is I think that when we

when I first sat down I forgot to say who we are or yeah

introduce you boys

so we’ll just do that at the end and then I think we’re cool

we’re good see you chat

alright so good day guys

it’s Maddie from Carpentry Australia

and I am here blessed today with the

with the habitat boys who we got

I’m Brad and I’m Tim that’s right

and both both co owners

co directors of Habitat Carpenters