Transcript episode 2

Good day guys it’s Matty from Carpentry Australia

I’m here today with the young and powerful Mister

Michael Ferguson from 93 Group

yeah mate

tell us a little bit about yourself and sort of how you got started

currently a business owner of 93 Group carpentry company

subcontracting out to the builders doing yeah

the whole complete package start to finish frame lock up fix decks

pergolas anything carpentry related

we we tackle got a small team at the moment

back down to just the apprentices

four apprentices and myself

looking to grow that

looking for some of the apprentices to to step up and and qualify

is anyone near the end of their time

yeah yeah

got a couple of them they’re all spaced out

I’ve got a first second third fourth year

the third and fourth year

both starting to

show that they’re willing to take on a bit more responsibility

and step up into that that next step

which is awesome and watching them now

take the time to train the apprentices is really cool to watch

watching them teach in a way that I would have hoped I taught them

and if not I would have loved to have been taught myself yeah

it’s really cool to see you

take me back to the start of sort of where

where it all began yeah

you know you’ve

you said you started your business is it 93 Group

was that two or three years ago

is that right no

I’ll be more than that now

be four four

four years yeah

four five

I think yeah

I started my apprenticeship late

I was about 23 when I did my apprenticeship

I was working at the Chase Hotel

just a a pub pokie venue inside Forest Hill Shopping Centre

worked my way up through the ranks there

was trying to become one of the assistant managers was

felt like it was there but it was

the positions already filled

and it was it’s kind of like the MCC

it was only way to move up was to people to leave funny enough

went on a Europe trip for four months with a couple of mates

and came back towards the end of the year

and like the first or second week back

I put in my notice for the festivals over summer and the year

knowing that it’s a busy time of year

people wanna take time off

yeah wasn’t till a couple months later

that the boss finally came out and said that

you can’t have that time off

everyone wants that time off

you’ve just had four months away

I’m like well

that’s why I put my notice in two months ago

had to think about it and that was

sort of the push for me to make the change

into something a bit more rewarding

and always knew I wanted to do something hands on

yeah what stopped you in the early

day like how come you didn’t go for a trade earlier

we just not too motivated in that space or yeah

not too motivated I was always cruised through school

never really pushed myself at school

I know mum would like to hear me

probably acknowledge the fact that she told me in year 10 to do VCAL

and I said no

VCAL’s for the not smart so smart people

I’m not one of those I’m gonna do year 12 with all my mates

same thing got through the end of year 12

Mum said you should go do a partnership I said no

I’ve just done 13 years of school

I don’t wanna go into something that’s as regimented as school again

so I sort of took a gap year fluffed around for a bit

landed the job at the pub

after doing many various different jobs throughout that year

stuck out the pub for yeah

for four or so years and then yeah

like I said realize that it wasn’t really my calling either

getting that told that I couldn’t have time off to go to BTV

I was like that’s it

I’m not I’m gonna quit next week and

That way I know I can go

so that was sort of a push

went out finally found someone who’d take me on as a mature age

which was pretty tough back then

it was a bit tough do you find that like as an employer now

do you find that you know

is it tough to take on a mature age

or like what are the downfalls to to have someone who’s a bit older

I actually probably would not that I prefer

I definitely would not turn away

the opportunity of putting on a mature age

I look back probably have going through it myself

I think that having a bit more life experience

knowing what it takes to have a job

like the responsibilities of showing up on time

understanding that the job has tasks and roles

and stuff that need to get done each day yeah

having that experience in that field

makes it easier to understand what’s involved with

being an apprentice or just being a tradie in general

and rocking up and getting the job done

I see that life experience I think it’s a big plus

I think even just being a bit more switched on

and I suppose with the life experience side of things

if you mature age

you will have most likely tried a few different options

and realise that hopefully this

Your doing this because you want to

because I wanna do it and people are there cause they wanna do it

or because they have a mortgage or rent to pay

and know they need to pay the bills

so they will rock up and do their job

yeah

exactly but again I’m not knocking non mature ages either

because some kids come out of

school and know that that’s what they wanna do too

SO

what about if you could give your younger trade yourself some advice

like what would it what would it be

I would say that yeah the

obviously

the biggest turn away from mature ages is the apprentice wage

like there’s ways around and you can work through it

and if you’re willing to put in the time

like you’ll reap the rewards later

but even just committing to it working a Saturday

doing a bit of overtime like there’s ways around the fact that you’re

you’re not making too much yeah

you’re not making too much but getting paid to learn yes yeah

exactly which is a big yeah

you don’t really get paid to go to uni

nah that’s it

yeah

you don’t walk away with a 50 k hex head or sixty hundred k hex head

you actually walked away with money in your pocket

that’s right what about have you ever had a

I think we’re actually talking about it out there

that like a job that went sideways

and sort of what was the positive outcome of like a bad situation

I suppose for me it’s a job we got going at the moment and it’s

it’s just the fact that it was

I’ve never done a job of that scale before

and there’s just a few extra things you need to think of

and allowances and things take a bit longer

because there’s more to do

not that I hadn’t thought of that

I just didn’t realize that it was yeah

things do extrapolate a bit because it’s a bigger job

long story short with that

I did under quote it in some areas

and that’s been a big learning curve

like I now know what I need to think of

I need to ask more qualifying questions

that was a big thing

I didn’t ask enough questions when quoting the job

to be able to quote for the work that need to be done

it’s as simple as the fact that it was all LV L frames

timber because of they had a contact from China

so it all got shipped in along with the sky and flooring

which is obviously heavier than yellow tongue

and all those little things that take that little bit extra that yeah

so a big thing that I Learned from that job

and I suppose where it went sideways

is I did under quote it

because I didn’t ask the qualifying questions when quoting the job

so I now know to ask more questions

to get the details that I need to be able to act yeah

quote correctly what goes into a good quote

what do you think in terms of a process asking the questions

thinking about the details

having like I’m still working on my systems of quoting

but having a written template of everything that could be in the

job that you can then remember to

you know to allow for

then I think it’s just having the right systems and processes

and just the experience I just do more of them

the more you do the more you learn the more you pick up as well yeah

a bit of muscle memory yeah

definitely I love that since the inception of 93 Group

you’ve gone through quite a few different builders

and you’ve worked for

I know that you do a lot of these sort of first edition yeah

you know sort of upstairs renovations and extensions and stuff

which is really cool have you got other

so there’s a few builders that you work for

and what do you think makes a good builder

great that’s a really good question

I think it as simple as it sounds

communication is a big thing

communication organization

and then taking ownership that it’s still their job too

the idea that even though the chippies come on and they’re sort of the ones running the show

during the construction phase of it

as in terms of what’s going on site

cause they’re

they’re the ones reading the plans building the frame all that

but the builder still needs to be aware of what could go wrong

or what might happen or the like

details and things to think of

rather than us coming across the problems and saying alright

how we gonna fix this they a good builder

a great builder is one who knows the plans back to front

and bring these things to our attention before they’re even an issue

I guess yeah

communication and it’s something I’m still working on

because communication goes both ways

I need to be able to communicate to the builder that

something’s gonna happen or it’s coming up or it has happened

but even between me and my team

like if my team say something

then communicate to me that we then communicate to the builder yeah

I’m definitely no expert on that either

but I’m I know it’s something that I’m trying to really yeah

Improve on because it’s yeah

that’s where things break down and go wrong

if there’s no communication

and you feel like your communication’s gotten better

over the past few years and yeah

it’s gotten better yeah

it still could get better but yeah

forever a a learning process

I guess everyone communicates differently

and learning how each other communicate

and working with each other to get the best out of each other yeah

some people need more direct some people need like a softer approach

yeah it’s all it’s all different yeah

you know and you obviously communicate different compared to sort of

you know the the other run of the mill yeah

carpenters or yeah whoever it might be so yeah

no what about

so you’ve come recently you’ve come on to see a you were

you were a bit of a member for a few years

but more recently we’ve become a champion of industry

what does that sort of mean to you and what was your idea behind

you know sort of tapping in a little bit further with us

my biggest push initially was when I started the business

I wanted to have that point of call

that contact

to be able to ask questions of things that I might not know

that was the initial thought process

and then yeah

once sort of having those few conversations between yourself and

and Nathan stuff

having that opportunity to to become recognised as a champion member

it seemed like an obvious thing

with the fact that it meant every one of our staff could then

have all the benefits of being covered

Australian members

and just even being included in the Helping Hand Days

and like all those opportunities that not every person gets

like being able to have that opportunity to give back to

to people in need is it’s pretty cool

I don’t know it’s just

it’s such a simple thing and it’s something bit more difficult to

to organize ourselves

but having like you guys being the the facilitators yeah

and then we can just show up and we take all the front yeah

and you guys come out yeah

you know get it done exactly

now we definitely appreciate the effort that you guys have put in

and I think you’ve you’ve been a part of a few of them now

and yeah you’ve always been a big supporter of that stuff

so yeah I think the community angle is obviously a big part of it

but we we couldn’t do sort of

what we do if we didn’t have good businesses that we’re involved with

and good carpenters and

you know people that are out there having a crack and

you know trying to learn the right ways to do things and

and then all of the stuff that filters through you

like we myself as well

I’m learning from all the builders and carpenters that I yeah

come into contact with

so I’m learning from you and I sort of give it off to other members

and it it’s just

we all work together and I think that’s what the biggest sort of

benefit of having a relationship is yeah

is all about I think that community sort of aspect of it is a huge

like positive too

the fact that it does feel like we’re all mates and can get along

and can bounce ideas off each other is yeah

it’s a big sort of plus for it as well

did you come to the were you at the golf day last year

Nah we miss it out unfortunately

was your team there when i we

we were meant to

have a couple of us there

but yeah no

just happened stars didn’t align

that’s right you’re too good

Just too busy

Not being organised

we’ll be more organized this year

yes that’s right yeah

what about the culture of your team

cause I’ve spent some time with your team on site

and I know that they all they all seem to put their head down

they work pretty hard they work well as a group

what what do you think sort of built that culture

and what makes them stick together and perform well

like trying to get in like minded crew is

Is a big thing that I’ve sort of always push for

or Pretty much everyone who i’ve hired

has been a bit of Word of Mouth

either through you guys

or through like friends of mine or friends of friends

so I suppose having that sort of

that referral process has always been a

a positive you sort of find the right people

yeah and the fact that someone’s willing to put up their hand and say

yeah

I recommend that they’ve got their head switched on is a huge plus

rather than just sort of seeing a resume and reading it on paper

and trying to guess

and then have to work it off through a few phone calls

but then even then through the interview process of like phoning them

having that conversation meeting them face to face

calling their references like

you get a pretty good gauge of someone meeting someone face to face

having a combo so

yeah so I suppose just knowing the culture that I want

I want people who as you said

want to put their head down

like keen to learn know that there’s a job that needs to get done

I suppose yeah

trying to make sure that my goal and vision and

everything is communicated clearly enough

so that they can feel that they can jump on board and be a part of it

yeah for me

I try to make it feel like we are a team

we’re all in it together it’s not just it’s not my

my business it’s

it’s ours like it

like it wouldn’t be a business without the team yeah

so trying to yeah

I suppose yeah

trying to make sure that my goal and vision and

everything is communicated clearly enough

so that they can feel that they can jump on board and be a part of it

yeah for me

I try to make it feel like we are a team

we’re all in it together it’s not just it’s not my

my business it’s

it’s ours like it

like it wouldn’t be a business without the team yeah so trying to yeah

I suppose I try my best to make sure that the guys realise that

I do appreciate the work they put in

how do you get back to them as well

like do you do some lunches and you know

like what else do you do sort of outside of or yeah

maybe during work but yeah

is there ways that you try to get back to the team too

yeah other than like yeah

the coffee runs and extended lunch breaks and stuff

we’ve done a few dinners here and there

I would love to do more but again

that’s just more probably more an organization thing for me

But I try to make sure the guys

rewarded for the efforts they put in

and obviously how you run your thing is different from

you know

like when you were an apprentice and you went through that thing

you probably weren’t getting dinners

yeah no

no not that I can really remember

but yeah I feel like it was

my apprenticeship felt a bit more old school

than what I’m trying to set up for my guys

I guess but the new age sort of yeah

yeah I was talking to some of the

the

I was talking to the habitat boys earlier today

and they were saying that it’s just so different compared to say

10+ years ago when they were doing their apprenticeship

and sort of starting out in the trade

you know that it was almost like it was

people prided themselves on how much they didn’t look after themselves

and they like you know

they’d get on the piss and they’d be smoking yeah

there’s all these things and that was like quite normal

and he goes we go to a site

there might be out of 20 people

there might be one person who rolls a cigarette or yeah

you know no one smokes they

they barely they’re running triathlons yeah

you know like it’s just yeah

there has been a bit of a culture shift in that way

culture shift is like health and yeah

and they’re sort of mental health conscious and yeah

that people are a lot more understanding and there’s just it’s very

especially in the tradespace as well

which you always think is a little bit more rough and tumble yeah

it’s not that that much it’s not really that way anymore

and that’s definitely shifting more and more

so even just the accessibility

like being the kids now have not just kids

but everyone has the fact that you got your phone

you can anyone get on the internet

like everyone knows all their entitlements

everyone knows like what’s going on

very easily

can search up other job roles and see what else is out there yeah

there’s just been a big culture shift

yeah really

and if you’re right it is the the access to information yeah

massive like people didn’t know

they didn’t know if they weren’t being paid

they didn’t know any better

they had no idea

and they just sort of went by whatever their bosses said or whatever

you know their parents said stuff like that

so it’s given it’s given a lot of young traders

their own agenda and their own sort of mindset as well

that’s really cool what keeps you as a person

and then maybe you as a business owner as well

but what keeps you motivated after all these years

I suppose the reason I

chose carpentry in the first place was the fact that

it’s one job where you actually see your work come to life

that still gets me every time I do a job

Especially as you’ve mentioned

a lot of our works renovation

extension stuff in our house and breaking through the roof

and then all of a sudden I’ve got a whole second story

then you put the cladding on and then it’s yeah

it’s a whole new house

like I’ve got photos on my phone of a job we’ve done recently

I took a photo from the street with no second story

and I took one the other day

and the fact that there’s yeah

this thing standing on top of the house and you did that yeah

it’s pretty cool yeah

it’s a rewarding factor yeah

the rewarding factor is a big driver for me and I mean bit cliche

but even my partner and I

Claire were driving home from somewhere the other day no

I went for a to walk with the dog yeah

along this creek track

And

a carport that I have built

Years ago

Back onto the creek

and I said hey

I built that it’s exactly like yeah yeah

but like even that like walking past and like shit it’s still standing

that’s cool like yeah

yeah

I suppose it’s that

that reward for effort that you can visually see as opposed to

I got mates who sit in front of a computer all day

and all they get at the end of the day is a spreadsheet

that they put together like yeah

I don’t see any

I don’t see any value in that but I mean they they might yeah

but now it’s the fact that you build something with your hands

it’s tangible yeah

yeah

you put your hands on it you could see it yeah

and you’re right it

it could be standing in 50 years time or what

however long it is and that’s what you’re

that’s what you’re doing and yeah

it’s not like you’re only working on one place and then it’s done

like you you’ve so many jobs yeah

so many things you can go everywhere you want

exactly I worked in this street I worked in that street yeah yeah

for sure what about

what’s like a myth about builders or carpenters that

that you wanna bust is there anything that you hear and you’re like

it’s just not true that all tradies are bad in in a sense

in terms of it can be that’s across the board

like not every boss is a bad boss in the trading ship

like as we’re talking before in the past

apprentices would get yelled at abused on the broom all day

not every boss is like that these days

I’m sure there’s still

some older guys are probably a bit stuck in their ways

and not used to the the generational change

but not every boss is like that

there’s opportunities for apprentices to come to work and learn and

enjoy what they do yeah

as opposed to being yelled at

the tradesmen’s being bad in terms of clients view on tradies

like always trying to rip them off not wanting to do the right job

like doing a shit job or always overcharging like that’s not true

I think in that sense

some people don’t always understand the value of our work is

and don’t understand that things might cost so much

and think that tradies are out there just to rip people off

it’s not like we’re there to do a good job for the client

so they have a nice home to live in for oh

definitely however long so yeah

I suppose that that all tradies are bad is probably the

the stick that I wanna change well

if they meet you then they know yeah

I’d hope so I’d hope so but yeah

even that like yeah people being terrified of the tradies rocking up

because they’re gonna trash the joint or whatever like no

we I like to think that we all respect the job that we’re doing in

people’s homes especially our work is renovation

people still living in their house while we’re doing the work

like we try stepping into their home yeah

we try to limit the swearing

we take our boots off at the door

like all those little things

because we do respect the fact that it’s their home

so yeah you know

like knocking up a new frame where there’s no soul there yet

like there’s already something existing yeah

you know yeah

exactly so I don’t know like yeah

like to think that we’re not bad

we do care we wanna do a good job

so definitely I did ask I asked the boys earlier today as well

the one thing that I’m interested to hear from someone like you

who’s a few years you know

five years in to sort of your journey in your company

if you lost it all tomorrow and there was no 93 group

and you just hypothetically

yeah

it didn’t exist yeah

you know what’s like

the first step that you take to sort of

get yourself back on the right track

if you’re qualified Carpenter

you wanna start your own thing

what would you do I’d like to think I’d go again

but I mean I don’t really know anything else either

but would you start like I don’t know

I always cause I hear from

I hear from subbies all the time and people that

you know

work on their own or they’ve got one or two man bands and they’re

they’re really never sure about what they need to do

to take that next step to either bring a new person onto the team

crack those bigger jobs maybe get their builder’s license

you know they’re not too sure

but do you have any advice for anyone who’s in that sort of phase of

not sure how to take that

I suppose the biggest thing and I felt it a bit

but there is that fear of if I put on an apprentice

am I gonna have work for them

if I quote that big job am I gonna have the guys for it

I think having a bit of a vision and a plan of or goal

more than a plan of where you wanna get to is a good driving force

and then just back yourself in

like if you’d doing a good job and quality work

like more work will come word of mouth

you finish a job

they’ll recommend someone same with putting on an apprentice

and you’ll be able to quote a bigger job

because you’ve got the guys to do it

I think that was a big thing for me

I put my first apprentice on and then like a month later

I put my second on because we’d got I that bigger job

the work was there it was the three of us for a while

and then I had a bit of a network then and more work was coming in

so I needed more guys to be able to get through the jobs quicker

so we get to the next one

I think yeah having a bit of like just back yourself a bit

I guess and trust the process

it is probably a big thing

I felt like

Highly ambitious at times

but I think that’s how it

do you think people tend to rush as well

like if you’re ambitious you know

like do you think you might have done some things too early or like

is there anything

some but I think I’m probably speaking from experience

being a business owner

the bills will start to stack up if you do rush in and go too too big

too quick and that’s a pretty good reality check to yeah

if you’re doing it right or not

If there’s no money coming in or you

you can’t pay the bills then yeah

something’s not quite right

you gotta get your ratios

so you were talking about

earlier about using some of these softwares

and sort of some of the things that might have been helping you

I know one that you mentioned earlier was build Exact

so what are you what are you doing with Build Exact at the moment

and sort of how is it helping your

I started

I originally got it probably 12 months ago to just do my take offs

While I was still using other apps for scheduling and job tracking

and all that yeah

and I sort of come to light of recent

and times that

Build Exact actually has so much capabilities and powers

to do all of those features

so I’ve now integrated everything back into Build Exact

I’m still learning yeah

I’m definitely no expert in it and I I wanna get better at it

but just having everything

in one place have you ever had anyone run you through like all of the

the back end of it or yeah

have you had meetings and stuff with them

I’ve yeah

done a couple of their demos and I’ve gonna book in another one

now that I know sort of what I’m looking at

and what I want to get out of it

I think it’s gonna be a will be a huge plus for me to be able to yeah

get even more out of it

but even just picking brains of other chippies

other builders

and asking how they utilize it has been a big learning curve for me

too yeah

so yeah just asking people who use it day in day out

how they use it and what features I can use to maximise my time

I guess yeah yeah

make it a bit easier yeah

and what about looking to the future

like what’s the next sort of six to 12 months look like for you

and for the 93 group what where where do you wanna be

I’m currently doing my diploma of building construction

like night school or what’s it

yeah yeah

two nights a week there you go

so between working every day and then all the admin and and class yeah

there’s not much free time at the minute plus renovations at home

so yeah not much free time but work doesn’t stop no yeah

always had the goal of

wanting to be a builder and have my builder’s licence

that’s still definitely on the cards

even though I’m becoming more aware

that there’s so much more responsibility

And a lot more to it than I originally thought

even just from starting my own business

and realizing the amount of admin that’s involved

with just what I’m doing at the moment yeah

knowing that there’s more to it than just what you see on site

each day but that’s still yeah

still a big goal of mine but in the short term

just sort of

continuing to grow and focus on the carpentry side of our business

Training a few more leaders

getting in a few more people to fill positions

to help make it more of a more autonomous system

I guess so that yeah

I can focus my time on getting my builder’s license

you’ve got the experience as well that you’ve done yeah

quite a few from I’d like to think so yeah

I definitely got an idea of how the process works obviously

no jobs the same and there’s always things to learn

even with just regulations changing and forever a learning game

just before we wrap up

so anything else you’d like to say about sort of the the

the stuff that we’ve been able to do over the past couple of years

and sort of the the way that we’ve been able to like how

how things changed from 93 from you know

maybe two years ago

and we weren’t really involved with each other to

to now

helping hand days awesome as I said before

great way to give back but even just the relationship now of yeah

I’m able to call you guys when I’m looking for apprentices

or looking for staff and you guys being able to

point me in the direction of people who are

who are looking for work through you guys

even just the fact that it started off with me

calling you guys initially

cause I wanted to see if you could help me with some pricing

all that sort of stuff that that initial conversation

what was it into like yeah

yeah fun yeah

exactly yeah

and just the opportunities to keep meeting other people

in the industry I think that’s probably circling back a bit

a thing that

a mindset sort of thing I wanna change of the industry too

Is that builders

and other trades

or like other carpentry companies can’t work together

like everyone should be on the same goal to wanna get better

definitely and not just think that oh

we’re quoting against each other on a job

so we’re enemies because one of us is gonna win

the other one doesn’t like everyone should be in it together

like I might get this job

you might get that job but let’s help each other out yeah

the fact that you guys are a forum for people to talk

about new materials new industry standards

all of that

the fact that everyone has a way of learning and getting better is

is cool yeah

so talk about yeah

we just wanna make our carpenters better more important yeah

more profitable

like there’s just that it’s an endless sort of stream of yeah

you know

just trying to help and provide the right resources for you know

cause there’s different stuff that we do for you

that we do for Bo and for any of the other members that we deal with

so yeah it’s just been able to provide that that support yeah

the fact that everyone needs something different

or has different needs or

or struggling in different areas having a

a point of call who can help you facilitate getting mentors through

yeah other other industries or whatever but yeah

the fact that you can help us find the people that we need to speak to

to to pick

pick brains and and improve the areas we need to improve is yeah

awesome and we’re always learning too yeah

so if anyone wants to find you or your business

like do you have a website

do you have an Instagram where’s the best place for that

we do have website and socials Facebook and Instagram

they’re pretty lax at the moment definitely need some more content

put in some more stuff yeah yeah yeah

yeah definitely gonna start building up the content a bit more

and get a bit more of a presence

I feel like that’s the sort of the way of the future too

that everyone’s now got content out

that people can see the work you’re doing yeah

it’s sort of your portfolio and yeah

sort of your name and branding and yeah

printing sort of on the on the industry yeah

and yeah like even talking to habitat earlier today

they said that they’ve got a media team

that just comes out to three different sites

I think like obviously it’s an expense

you know

people wanna do it themselves and other people wanna team to do it

but they said that it just it sort of it gets more work

but I don’t even have like a phone number on their website

it’s all just comes through other mouth to mouth

or via their Instagram that’s cool

so that’s definitely another way to do it

I feel like my focus has been

just trying to build up the quality of work on site

and that’s been our way of winning

more work and having relationships on site

but yeah I think that is the next step is having the content out there

so the people who can obviously get to our sites

can see the stuff we’re doing

and definitely what not so yeah

looking forward to it yeah

well thanks for coming in

thanks for spending some time with us all good

I appreciate it bro I appreciate it

thanks for having me

no worries cheers